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		<title>Kaftan</title>
		<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan</link>
		<description>Posts in the discussion thread &quot;Kaftan&quot;</description>
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-733149</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-733149</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bunni</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>10915</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Some notes on making a symetrical Birka-style kaftan, inspired by questions Joss asked:</p> <p>The Birka style of kaftan is basically just a tunic with a cut all the way up the front, plus an optional back split.<br /> The back is one piece, like a normal tunic. I guess you could make it in two pieces if you really fancied, but there's no evidence so why would you?<br /> You could make it without side gores (much like you could make a Norman style front &amp; rear split tunic without side gores) but personal experience says they're not as nice to wear, don't move as well, are too tight.<br /> Shoulders, arms and underarms are just like standard tunics.<br /> In conclusion, use the standard tunic pattern.</p> <p>The standing collar is based entirely on one surviving find (pictured <a href="http://www.miklagard.nvg.org.au/costume/rus/trader/kaftan_text.htm">here</a>). That one is 51&#160;cm long. Which is a good 20 inch diameter neck hole. It's hard to tell, but it doesn't seem to have been made to overlap like a modern shirt and doesn't seem to have had any sort of clasp? Most people reconstruct it to be standing and not overlapping, but possibly butting. Like a Chinese shirt, basically- look up Mandarin collars or Nehru collars.</p> <p>Buttons. Kaftans are buttoned from the neck to the waist, no lower.<br /> You could just attach the buttons to one edge of the kaftan, and the loops to the other? But that wouldn't show them off as well, so most people instead go for frogging. Frogging is, again, like you see on Chinese shirts. But keep the fancy big swirls to a minimum, you just want straight horizontal lines.<br /> Basically get two bits of cord the same length. Thread a button onto the middle of one. Then double them over, and sew the two cords onto the surface of your Kaftan. One has the button attached, the other has a loop at the end you use as the buttonhole. Success!<br /> If you don't have authenti-buttons, <a href="http://perfectpatterns.tripod.com/frogs.html">here</a> are instructions on making pretty knots to use as buttons on the second half of this page (ignore the big swirl loops on the first half!)</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-94948</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-94948</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Ferny</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>24772</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Freya, is that info on the wiki (and if not, could it go on please). I had a brief phase of competance at this wiki lark, but I'm now crap again. I'll try and re-learn it asap.</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-93430</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-93430</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>axebreaker</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>10107</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>There's a sewing stall on the Wednesday market at Gloucester Green - they do 4 emboidery skeins for a quid, plus selection boxes.</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-92771</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-92771</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>emxx</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>16925</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>if you want to try out the different types of thread etc, i suggest you get an embroidery hoop and thread and try it out on non-expensive fabric scraps first. then you can compare the looks and colour combinations, and not end up ruining silk with unpicking threads all the time.<br /> i think kings fabrics also does standard embroidery thread skeins, of the £1-2 variety,w cih i use for cross stictch and friendship bracelets. you could use them to experiemnt then buy really nice silk ones at the market.</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-87608</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-87608</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Shelagh</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>17618</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>If you have time you might like to give metallic thread a try, as it IS authentic, but I think couching would work better than embroidery. This is where you lay the decorative metallic thread along the fabric and fix it in place with little stitches of inconspicuous thread looping over it. Very traditional for military regalia. Not only does it avoid pulling the metal thread through the fabric, but it makes much more efficient use of the most valuable material. It's a similar sort of idea to brocading with gold thread instead of using it as a warp. Kreinik is a good brand of fake metal thread, and they do mail order. I DO have a small amount of real gold thread which I am keeping safe until I have practised enough with fake to feel confident using it. And here is a quiz question for the scientists: what easy method do I use to tell the fake from the real metallic thread?</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-87595</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-87595</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 16:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jon The Elderly</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>22659</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Debbie Bliss is a major brand- find it in department stores etc (or try google!). Don't put a dark blue on dark green-it won't show! Peronally I'd go russet/burnt red (ie maddder) or yellow. Pale (grey, yellow, anything really) would also work. Think Bold, Darling!</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-86531</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-86531</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Philipppp</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>14306</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Oh-so-sexy <em>lined</em> dressing gown <em>with buttons</em> however!</p> <p>Anyway, I don't think I'll be using real metal thread. Instead I'll probably go for embroidery silk. Is this going to be available at the next NLHF in February? The name Debbie Bliss does not appear on the trader's list. Doing a search on the internet, I found this:<br /> <a href="http://www.angelyarns.com/bliss/debbie-bliss.php/yarn/111">http://www.angelyarns.com/bliss/debbie-bliss.php/yarn/111</a><br /> Is this the right sort of thing? It doesn't mention anything about how loosely it is spun though.</p> <p>As an aside: I haven't made decisions on colour yet, it'll depend also on the silk that'll form the basis for the embroidery. My kaftan is a dark green with a slightly lighter green lining and I'm planning to make the button loops from blue wool, so I'll probably also go for something blueish for the silk, which will go on the cuffs and around the neck and then probably a silvery/metal-like embroidery, but I'm not sure yet.</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-86458</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-86458</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jon The Elderly</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>22659</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Hi all;<br /> Never made a Kaftan (bloody foreigners in their oh-so-sexy dressing gowns harrumph) but have done a lot of embroidery. Be careful with 'metallic' embroidery thread- it's a bitch to use (it tends to break and unravel) and it never quite looks right. A grey or pale yellow silk can look just as good, and is authentic (there is evidence for the use of gold colour where gold was too expensive). Embroidery silk should be quite loosely spun (if at all), so check out Debbie Bliss knitting silk- lovely colours, loosely spun. Or if you are working on wool, consider wool embroidery- Appleton's Crewel wool is the Badger's Nadgers, and available from Threadneadle House, Nuneham Courtenay (just down the A4074). You can get real gold thread, but make sure it's fairly high carat, otherwise it tarnishes and looks all crap. This is all from bitter experience!</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-82352</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-82352</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bunni</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>10915</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I guess just normal style? Dunno, haven't worked with silk before.</p> <p>The ultimate authentic pattern to copy is the one Peter Beatson at Miklagard/New Varangian used. The original find is 10th century Swedish, lovely swirly patterns embroidered onto red silk using silver thread, used to make big cuffs and a standing collar. Mmm&#8230; You can definitely buy silvery metal thread that will do as silver substitute- I have some. Haven't tried to use it yet tho.</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-76054</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-76054</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Philipppp</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>14306</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Chris, you joined the Kaftan-obsessed part of Wychwood! (&quot;Hello, my name is Ppppp, and I have a Kaftan-problem.&quot; Hold on, I don't even have a kaftan yet. However, I do have 6 metres of fine wool and I am prepared to spend another thirty pounds on buttons that are authentic replicas of Birka finds&#8230;)</p> <p>Two Kaftans is not at all excessive. It is very good, in fact. It's just a shame that you can't wear them at the same time (although I'm sure that won't stop you from trying).</p> <p>Anyway, any ideas on how best to go about silk cuffs/neck? There are some examples on the pages linked from the kit section, but I'm not sure how to make them. Normal embroidery - if so, with what material? If not, how? I'm sure I can find a decent authentic pattern for it, but I'm wondering about the actual techniques. I guess I'll go off and do more research!</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-75491</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-75491</link>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bunni</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>10915</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Showing all the authentic variations is a good thing. And patterned silk edges would look very fancy! Go for it. And, well-provenanced in those pretty articles.</p> <p>I haven't seen any evidence for full-length coats beyond knee length. Tunic/knee length, yes. Longer? Not that I've seen. Some nomadic coats are similar. They just have one or two frogs, at belt-length. They can then be covered by a big wide silk belt.</p> <p>On the other hand, I haven't read the Hagg 1986 Birka article that talked about buttonless. My gut feeling is that it'll be kaftans without surviving buttons, as in ones held by wooden toggles or cloth frogs or similar. The famous Valsgaarde find with the pretty embroidered stand-up collar was from a grave without buttons, but again that might have been perishable buttons.</p> <p>I'm definitely making two, one un-fur-lined and one fur-lined. The unlined will be asymetrical, not yet certain about the lined&#8230;</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-75457</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-75457</link>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>WW Chris</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>18375</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>As soon as I find some nice fabric (since *someone* took all the good stuff at TORM. Who was that, eh? eh? :p) I'm going to make a full length wrap around one without buttons, although I haven't found a pattern for one on the links (I think a couple orf the websites migth no longer be around). How much provenance are there for buttonless long wrap-around coats - is it likely that the buttonless Birka ones were like this?</p> <p>Bunni - are you making a nomadic kaftan AND a furry Rus one? Thats a lot of kaftans&#8230;(which is, of course, very good indeed.)</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-75421</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-75421</link>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Philipppp</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>14306</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Very pretty indeed! But I shall go for the one with buttons along the centre. This also means that we have some variation in Wychwood and so all those Rus of future generations of Wychwooders (because clearly everyone wants to be an eastern Viking) will know what those two versions may look like and so can more easily decide what to go for themselves!</p> <p>I haven't yet decided how to decorate the sleeves and edges though. Some embroidered (?) silk bands would be nice&#8230;</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-75399</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-75399</link>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 13:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bunni</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>10915</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Oh, been searching pretty nomadic asymetical caftans. And will definitely be making one, held together by frogs. Check out the new links i've added on the coats page. Mmm&#8230;</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-75098</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-75098</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bunni</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>10915</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Good link! Nice page. Same pattern as New Varangian Guard, as well. Which is cool, and is an easy pattern (being basically just a lengthened tunic with added slits).<br /> I think the button has been attached to red thread, then the red thread sewn onto the kaftan. With a loop of red thread used on the other side as the button hole. Looks pretty! And easier than doing buttonholes, which are a bit of a bitch (and I don't think provenanced for our period?).</p> <p>I've been looking through my new nomadic book, and they do feature a couple of long buttonless coats, held together by wide cloth belts. These are on the more central asian nomads tho (rather than the western nomads we want), so less applicable for our kit. Still, thought I'd mention it.</p> <p>For my kaftans, I'm still undecided between using wooden toggles or thread frogs. I've found some nice frogs, and they will look more fancy&#8230;<br /> Think I'm going to go for the off-centre look tho.</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-75025</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-75025</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Philipppp</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>14306</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I think I'm becoming more fond of the idea of the buttoned coat, even though that means that I need to get nice buttons some time (I may use cheap wooden ones for the time being though).<br /> Another nice picture, though only very brief description, can be found here:<br /> <a href="http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/viking%20kaftanm.html">http://www.gelfling.dds.nl/viking%20kaftanm.html</a><br /> I do like that style, although I'll probably make mine slightly longer, also keeping in mind that the person in the picture claims to have made it by converting a tunic, hence it has tunic length, and actually looks more like a glorified tunic than a completely different type of garment. The pattern is therefore very simple though, compared to some of the other kaftan patterns, particularly those with the multiple gigantic gussets.<br /> I must also say that the buttons look rather nice, though I'm not quite clear how they work, i.e. why there are these red band on both sides. Is it that the button is attached on the one side, there is a red loop on the other, while the one on the button side is just decoration?</p> <p>Now as I might have mentioned, I'm planning to line it with another layer of wool (I have two rather nice pieces of really quite thin wool, so it wouldn't be too thick in the end). I'm not quite sure about the authenticity however. I haven't come across any mention of thin wool lining, although in general lining seems to have not been unusual. It wouldn't exactly seem irrational to have two layers of wool given the climate in some of the Viking/Rus areas. But if anyone has relatively conclusive evidence (as far as that's possible) that that's definately something that didn't happen, then let me know before it's too late!</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-75011</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-75011</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bunni</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>10915</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Yeah, apparently Hagg suggested there were some buttonless kaftans at Birka. Haven't read the article myself because it's foreign, but it's:<br /> Hägg, I. (1986) 'Die Tracht'. In: G. Arwidsson (ed.) Birka II:2. Systematischen Analysen der Gräberfunde, pp.51-72. KVHAA: Stockholm.</p> <p>I'd want to read it to find out if they mean kaftans made without buttons, or kaftans without surviving buttons. Are they just cloth or wooden buttons that haven't survived the centuries?</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-74921</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-74921</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Philipppp</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>14306</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>To return to the original topic, I'm still not sure whether to go for the Germanic or Nomadic style. I guess Nomadic would be a bit more appropriate for my Rus Viking, but Germanic wouldn't be wrong either and according to one of the Kaftan websites they found a buttonless kaftan at Birka (but they also found several buttoned ones, according to Ewing, so I'll probably get buttons), which would be quite suitable since I'm also going for the Birka-style hat, so I shall pursue this further.<br /> If anyone has any more advice/links/knowledge, please share it!</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-72997</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-72997</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>otherem</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>26559</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Sorry milord&#8230;</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-72559</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Dominic</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>17560</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>that's beornwulf thankyouverymuch&#8230;</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-72352</guid>
				<title>Help with shoes</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-72352</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>otherem</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>26559</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Greetings Wychwooders! I was hoping I might be able to partake of your superior knowledge and advice.<br /> I recently bought some very swanky authenti-shoes, only to find that they are exceedingly slippery to wear and I spent the whole time anxiously creeping around awaiting impending ankle breakage at any moment. Bjorn tells me this problem is common. What have people done to give their shoes some grip? Suggestions?<br /> Thanks :)<br /> The other Emily</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-68531</guid>
				<title>Re: Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-68531</link>
				<description></description>
				<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 23:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bunni</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>10915</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>The two options are the Germanic or the Nomadic. The Germanic should be wrap around but shouldn't be longer than knee-high. The Nomadic should be buttonned or toggled or frogged, definitely not just wrap-around, and can be as long as you like, but should be capable of riding a horse in&#8230;</p> <p>The good link is <a href="http://www.miklagard.nvg.org.au/costume/rus/trader/rus_description.htm">http://www.miklagard.nvg.org.au/costume/rus/trader/rus_description.htm</a><br /> Steer clear of making a hidiously hugely gussetted one like the ShadowDragon. You *can* make a non-rear-split riding coat, and it should be quite gussetted, but not that much. That's much too much.</p> 
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				<guid>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046#post-68465</guid>
				<title>Kaftan</title>
				<link>http://wychwood.wikidot.com/forum/t-27046/kaftan#post-68465</link>
				<description></description>
				<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Philipppp</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>14306</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>It's once more me bothering everyone with all the kit I want to make despite having no time at all. Anyway, at TORM I acquired some beautiful wool with a good weave (couldn't resist it, sorry Veronica), which I shall, with some luck and given the Christmas vacation, turn into a lined kaftan of the longer kind (i.e. not one of those described as &quot;wrap-around jacket&quot; in the relevant kit section on the Wiki, but more along the riding coat lines). Now I looked at some of the pattern found in the different links and while some of them don't seem to make any sense at all, others seem managable.<br /> I am obviously aware that not many will have had experience with making kaftans, but I thought I'd nevertheless ask if anyone has any advice/hints/things to watch out for/explanations for patterns/tips/cookies/general comments on making it, authenticity, how to best do the lining or whatever else you can think of. Or if you happen to come across any more good web pages or have any book recommendations on kaftan matters, please let me know!!</p> <p>I'll be using wool and also wool to line it (two different shades of green), but the material is quite thin, so it should nevertheless be comparatively light weight. I haven't started worrying about silk cuffs or fur around the edges yet. &#8230; Yet.</p> 
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